Running into the Fire

Introduction
In this powerful episode, we speak with Brent, a veteran and former police officer, about his experiences with PTSD, burnout, and his path to recovery. Brent shares his raw and honest story of struggling silently for years before finally seeking help.

Main Lesson
Seeking help early is crucial for mental health recovery. Waiting too long to address mental health issues can lead to more severe and prolonged struggles.

Key Takeaways
PTSD and burnout can affect anyone, even those in high-functioning roles.Masking emotions and avoiding help can worsen mental health over time.Changing careers may be necessary for mental health improvement.Recovery is an ongoing journey, not a quick fix.

Action Items
If you're struggling, don't wait to seek help - talk to a trusted friend, family member, or professional about how your feeling.Be aware of signs of burnout in yourself and others and take action.Consider how your work environment impacts your mental health and make changes.Stay proactive in maintaining good mental health practices and stick to them.
Conclusion
Brent's story reminds us that recovery is possible, even after years of silent struggle. By being open about mental health challenges and taking proactive steps towards healing, we can move towards a healthier, more hopeful future.

988 Lifeline Website
If you or a loved one are in crisis and need help, call or text the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. Whether you’re facing mental health struggles, emotional distress, alcohol or drug use concerns, or just need someone to talk, free and caring counselors are there to speak to you confidentially. Help is only a call or text away!

www.burnoutstory.com

Transcript

Annabelle (00:02)
Okay, Brent. So I know I kind of sent you a little bit of some questions just to get you thinking about what we're going to talk about today. But we've had conversations about your past and burnout and what you went through and where you are now. can you just just tell me a little bit about your background and how you personal and professional and

Brent Dukes (00:04)
Hey, Annabelle.

Annabelle (00:32)
and how you came to feel this burnout.

Brent Dukes (00:36)
Hell, well, out of high school at 19, I joined the Army on active duty.

Annabelle (00:43)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (00:44)
That involved me going to basic training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina in 2006. I was eventually assigned to Fort Hood, Texas upon completion of basic. I was there for four years for my entire enlistment. During that time, I deployed from Fort Hood to Iraq twice. The first deployment was 15 months.

back home in Texas for a year and then I deployed again for three months. I got back and then I got out of the Army shortly after. I moved back to my hometown of Jackson, Alabama and I worked odd jobs and went to school for about six months and then someone showed me an article in the paper for the local police department, Jackson PD.

Annabelle (01:14)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (01:42)
that they were hiring. I never thought about law enforcement. It's not like some people were just, they had always wanted to be a cop or their family members were cops. That just wasn't the case. It truly never crossed my mind to do until I saw that article. And I really didn't love police officers, if I'm honest. But I thought, why not? There seems to be lot of similarities between military and law enforcement in that it's a

Annabelle (01:51)
Right.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (02:12)
somewhat paramilitary organization and that there's a rank structure and things like that. So said, maybe it'll be a good fit. Yeah, it was very familiar. as civilian jobs can go, that's about as close as you can get. So I applied and I was hired in January 2011. And that's when I really began my burnout, but I guess I'll get to that. But I did that for

Annabelle (02:18)
It was familiar. It seemed familiar. Yeah.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (02:40)
from 2011 to 2015. Because of burnout, I got out, decided to go back to school to finish my degree. And about a year and a half into that, to move into Mobile Alabama and pursue my degree, I got a call from the Deputy Chief of Jackson Police Department, which is the second in charge. And he used to be just a sergeant in investigations, like whenever I left.

Annabelle (03:10)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (03:10)
He told me there's a new police chief. He's great. He's very different than the old police chief, which was a large contributor to my burnout. So I was like, okay, I love the job itself, but you know, it was really the leadership and all the leaderships changed. And he really got me psyched up to do it. They offered me a raise. so I came back in, in December, 2016 and I ended up doing that for a total of

12 years with Jackson Police Department. And I left in July of last year.

Annabelle (03:45)
guess I have a question for you as far as just to go back a little bit, because that's a long journey. No, you had a long journey. you mentioned that you think the burnout started with when you joined the whole police department. But I know that you mentioned you were deployed twice. you have a young family. And I think at that time.

Brent Dukes (03:50)
a lot.

Annabelle (04:13)
You had your family and what was that like as far as like the deployments and the experience there?

Brent Dukes (04:21)
Yep, I think the surprising part, I guess if I go back, my burnout did start during my deployments, but it was less of a traditional burnout and just more of a combination of just the trauma of a deployment and also being away from my family, being away from Beth, we were

Annabelle (04:39)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (04:49)
just dating during my first deployment. Then we got engaged during my mid-tour leave, which is like halfway through. came back for a couple weeks and we got engaged, but just missing everyone. It felt more like a prison sentence than anything else. It just felt like doing time because everything is so restricted.

Annabelle (04:52)
Yeah.

wow. Yeah.

Brent Dukes (05:14)
freedom of movement. mean, there's only so many, you can only, you don't get in a car and just go wherever you want. All movement, like any kind of, if I am in a vehicle, it's a, you know, there's, it's a dangerous situation. If I'm in a helicopter, that's a dangerous situation. So it's really just like where I could go on foot, seeing the same people living in really confined quarters.

Just everything, food is limited. You're the same, basically prison food, sleeping on a twin bed with a terrible mattress and so things like that. And so I would say it had more in common with prison than anything else. wears you down.

Annabelle (06:04)
Wow. so, so as far as the military, what attracted you to the military? Do you have family? Like, what was the appeal? Or did you just, you were young and you were like, I need to do something with my life? Like some folks.

Brent Dukes (06:19)
No, no, not at all. was, you know, I was in ninth grade during September 11th. And so, every, you know, we invaded in 03, but I graduated in 05. And it really was as simple as, you know, I didn't have any strong political motives, like, well, or even understanding the connection, or, you know, now that we understand the lack of connection between Iraq and...

Annabelle (06:26)
Okay.

Bye.

Brent Dukes (06:49)
9-11, was none of that. It really was just all the other guys or a lot of other guys my age that were already in the military before September 11th. They're away from their families. They're having to deploy. And it just didn't feel right to me that I got to go just go off to a college and party and enjoy myself.

Annabelle (06:58)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (07:17)
when many of them are dying or being wounded or at a minimum having to be away from their families. It just didn't feel right. And so it was a, I guess, a pseudo patriotic motivation for that. Yeah, just that it just doesn't, didn't seem right that I didn't have to do that as well. Whether the reasons were over there are good or none of that really matters because those guys are going whether

Annabelle (07:31)
this sense of responsibility you had.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (07:46)
the reasons are good or not. So it was just really about like the other service members that were having to deploy. And I just wanted to join in that, that brotherhood of like, okay, I'm gonna be there with you guys.

Annabelle (07:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So, so as far as, know, when you were there, I mean, did you recognize like when you would come home? Cause you said there was a period of time you deployed, you came back a year. Did you notice any changes in you after that first experience as far as like some of the, like you mentioned, you said the word trauma. did you start feeling that in between deployments or do you think it was after the second?

Brent Dukes (08:25)
yeah. Yeah, la?

Well, it was actually during the first deployment when I really started noticing a difference in my personality and that I was starting to deal with PTSD and symptoms of depression and anxiety and things I didn't recognize them necessarily as that initially. I thought maybe I was getting sick or something when that started. That was a

Annabelle (08:54)
Right.

Brent Dukes (09:00)
in around September of 07. I'd been there for a few months, you know, since April. And we got mortared a lot, mortared in rocket attacks where they launch them from outside the base, these explosives, and they land inside the base. And they're just really random where they hit. And we would have an alarm system, like a radar system, that would detect

Annabelle (09:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (09:30)
the indirect fire, which is what a mortar and rocket's called, it's indirect versus shooting a gun at somebody's direct fire, it would set the alarm off. And so you would have a couple seconds of warning where you could get inside of, like try to jump inside of a bunker or at least get down and lay flat on the ground and minimize your chance of being injured. And that's something that happened every day and sometimes multiple times a day. So you get really complacent.

Annabelle (09:48)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (10:00)
And it seems wild that you would get complacent with something like that. But whenever it's happened constantly, almost out of a sense of self-preservation, just to your mind, you almost have to minimize it and make it not a big deal. And you and your buddies will be laughing while explosions are going off around you and just literally making jokes. you're completely desensitized. And it's just, you almost have to. And it's kind of like people in the medical field or...

Annabelle (10:11)
again

So you were desensitized to it at the time. Yeah.

Brent Dukes (10:29)
in law enforcement that make really dark jokes about stuff that's maybe inappropriate. It's not that you think it's actually funny. You're just trying to not lose your mind about it. it's really common. Everybody just kind of defaulted to that. And so it had been months in. There had been 100 rocket attacks in that amount of time, mortar attacks. And so you're just so used to it. And I was sitting in my room.

Annabelle (10:35)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (11:00)
about 10 o'clock at night and I had four roommates in this little B room and they were on the night shift so I was in there by myself, was fixing to lay down and go to bed and I was watching TV, I bought a little 13 inch TV from a civilian contractor that was leaving as I was getting there and so for 50 bucks he sold me this crappy little TV and a crappy little microwave.

Annabelle (11:29)
Okay.

Brent Dukes (11:30)
I guess that he had ordered and I was like, yeah, heck yeah, I was pumped to have them. Yeah, just some little comfort and a lot of us had snuck our Xboxes and other stuff like that over there. I had my Xbox 360 and I had to hook up to my TV. I was watching a movie on it and I heard the alarm go off. And not a big deal, it goes off all day. So I paused my movie and I'm sitting there listening instead of getting down on the floor, I just sat in my chair and...

Annabelle (11:34)
little comfort there.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (11:59)
I was waiting for just to hear where it hit, like see how close it was gonna hit. Well, the next thing I know, it hits my barracks, like my room. it felt like I got punched in the head, just from the concussion of it. It just kinda felt like got punched and my ears were ringing, I couldn't hear anything. And I jumped on the ground and know.

Annabelle (12:13)
my god.

Wow.

Brent Dukes (12:29)
All of sudden I wanted to get on the ground a little too late, you know, but I got on the ground and I hear everybody screaming and like, I guess dealing with their whatever, because they're in other rooms, they dealt with the explosion as well, because it's not a small explosion. And I looked in the direction, like the top corner of my room where the rocket had hit.

Annabelle (12:36)
I can't imagine.

Bye.

Brent Dukes (13:00)
and smoke was instantly in my face. And so I got as low as I could to the floor and thinking I could get under the smoke. But because of the pressure of the blast, there was no under the smoke. Like when smoke fills a house or a room, normally it has time to rise, but the air pressure just forces it in and it goes all the way to the floor. So I couldn't breathe. Because of the blast, I was disoriented. I had a concussion and I just was out of it.

Annabelle (13:12)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (13:30)
And so I'll grab my rifle, I'm in my underwear, I'm trying to find the door and I can't see. The smoke is so thick that I can't see anything. Plus the lights were off. It was nighttime and the lights were off in my room so I couldn't see anything. And I'm just panicking. It's just pure terror and helplessness that I'd never felt before. Because other times you're scared but you feel like you have some agency.

Annabelle (13:44)
pitch black.

Brent Dukes (14:00)
and that you can do something about whoever's trying to hurt you. This wasn't that. This was pure helplessness. There's nothing I can do and no one that can help me. And.

Annabelle (14:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (14:16)
Sorry Beth's coming out here. Well yeah, thought, I knew I hit a point where I knew I was going to die. And I wouldn't say I felt peace about it, but I didn't really feel anything. I just felt completely numb. And I just had this acceptance of I'm going to die. And, but I just felt the urge like just keep trying until you.

Annabelle (14:18)
Did you think it was it?

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (14:44)
pass out because I was coughing so hard because I couldn't breathe. And next thing I know my hand is on the door handle and I couldn't believe it. And I opened the door and ran out of the smoke. I ran until I was out of the smoke and I threw up and just puked my guts out and from all the smoke I'd inhaled and swallowed.

Annabelle (14:47)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (15:12)
It was crazy and all the chaos is after all that, the way the military is is so wild. I didn't get any medical treatment after that or like for the concussion or smoke inhalation or anything. They just put us in vehicles and drove us to different barracks, like temporary barracks. And there was a blanket and a pillow and we went to sleep.

Annabelle (15:13)
It was scary.

my gosh.

Brent Dukes (15:41)
That was it. It was just, it's just normal. Yeah, it's just like, that's just, that's what happens over there. And I noticed in the weeks and months after that, I started becoming really withdrawn. I started losing interest in everything in playing video games, which I had loved up to that point. We would all kind of like play our video games together. We had figured out a way to, without internet.

Annabelle (15:44)
normal just we're moving forward yeah wow

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (16:11)
to hook our Xboxes up and play some games together and stuff and I lost complete interest in that. I never wanted to do it. I didn't really know why I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to watch a movie, you know, on my TV. I didn't want to do anything. I would do my job, just feel lethargic the whole time, just no energy, no motivation. And I would

Annabelle (16:19)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (16:40)
come back into my my hooch and I I would lay down and just lay there and sleep a lot and not talk to my friends and like people started to notice that eventually and

Annabelle (16:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (16:57)
They'd ask me if I was okay. was like, yeah, I just think I'm not feeling good. I think there's something going on with me health-wise. I just really, maybe partially in denial that it was mental health related, but it was mainly that I didn't want to admit to it because that was just a career ender. They'll kick you out of the military back then. It's not like it is now how they take care of you, check on your buddy's mental health. Like, no, that was not it. You better not admit anything.

Annabelle (17:08)
Yeah.

learn.

Brent Dukes (17:25)
you'll never get promoted, they'll kick you out, they'll treat you like a leper if you even hint that you're depressed or you have PTSD. We don't have PTSD, that's only rare. Unless you lost your arms and legs, you don't have PTSD. If you do, you're weak, you're a coward.

Annabelle (17:37)
Ryan.

Yeah. So did you even understand at the time? And it sounds like obviously the education about that for you guys wasn't there. Did you even understand what PTSD is? Have you heard it? Are you, you know, no.

Brent Dukes (17:58)
No, no, I didn't understand PTSD. I understood like depression generally, but I didn't understand PTSD. So they was like, you're depressed and you're depressed. I'm like, I'm not depressing. But they made me go see a psychiatrist over there. Like you said, make an appointment with mental health. And I was so pissed. And so I went there and I lied to her.

Annabelle (18:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (18:27)
No, I'm fine. I just hadn't been feeling good. Lied to her. She said, well, I think you're, you know, you're having some, what does she say? adjustment issues, guess, adjusting, diaract, guess, or one or one is supposed to. And, after that, I didn't mention anything else. It was just, I was hyper aware of how I acted around other people. Then that's when I learned to put on a mask.

Annabelle (18:28)
Mm-hmm.

yeah, almost died. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (18:58)
really mask how I felt and mask my emotions and I learned how to, I got really really good at acting like my old self even when I was just miserable. Just, I felt like I wanted to die but no one around me would, they could tell, no one around me could tell that anything at all was wrong because I was behaving and acting and smiling and joking like I was before. Even though that person before was was gone.

Annabelle (19:25)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (19:28)
I didn't, I never felt like that again. I still have it, but I knew how to fake it.

Annabelle (19:34)
So you have this experience and being deployed and you mentioned you came back home, you took a little break, right, to go to school. At the time you saw this article about the police department when you got back home, you're still obviously dealing with this PTSD because at the time that wasn't addressed, but you mentioned brotherhood. So.

whenever you saw that article at that time and you kind of took a break, you came home. Were you craving that brotherhood again? Yeah.

Brent Dukes (20:07)
yeah, definitely, because I miss my buddies. I miss them a lot. And I would talk to them on the phone still, but just there was something about that brotherhood where you really, you pick on each other and you joke with each other and just would be inappropriate in any other like office setting, any other job setting. But, and it sounds like you hate each other, but you know, you only joke with people that you love more than your own family and

Annabelle (20:23)
Right.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (20:37)
You you just, you have those friendships that, you know, I know the term now is trauma bonding, but I wasn't aware of it then. And so I missed that.

Annabelle (20:44)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, you had no idea, right?

Yeah. So you, you joined the police, the police force. And, I know we talked a little bit about that experience and, and you've had, you dealt with the PTSD and then you went into the police force. What happened then? What, what are, what were some of the things that, did you start feeling a sense of the same way you kind of did when you were deployed or how did that come to fruition whenever you were working for the police force?

Brent Dukes (21:18)
Yeah, I had this honeymoon phase with it for about six months when I started policing. About six months after I got out of the police academy, maybe nine months, is I got out of the police academy and that was very easy compared to like basic training, for example. It was super easy and you know, all these people struggle and I just couldn't believe it because it was just

It was so physically and mentally easy by comparison. But then I got out of the police academy and my first assignment was working straight night shift with my first friend in policing, Chad. He was a Marine. He was actually still on the Marine reserves. He had been active duty, deployed in Iraq twice, but he was still in the Marine Corps reserve for a while there one minute.

whenever we first started working together. So we immediately hit it off. And it was just like things used to be. And we were working straight night shift, working on a street crime unit. So it was real fast paced, real dangerous. Every day just about we're getting in a foot pursuit and having a fight with drug dealers that are armed.

It was so much fun. That kind of danger was so exciting and it was exactly what I was looking for.

because I had really lost my sense of self-preservation and I just, I didn't realize it then. But part of PTSD is...

Annabelle (22:57)
Bye.

Brent Dukes (23:14)
term I'm looking for. I'm sorry I'm drawing a blank.

just being like an adrenaline junkie.

Annabelle (23:22)
Yeah, like you need that adrenaline. you think it just, I think because you said that you at the time had these feelings of feeling depressed and like you just needed something to make you feel alive again.

Brent Dukes (23:35)
Yeah, I just needed that serotonin from that excitement. what would be, I guess, the average person's worst day was the best time for me. Like I just did something that could have gotten me killed, that it's surprising it didn't get me killed or go bad. And it went how it was supposed to go and worked out. And I was...

never afraid during it and I should have been and that should have been a clue to me that it's reasonable to be afraid. know, it's bravery is feeling that fear and just pushing through it, but what I was doing wasn't even bravery. It was just, I had no sense of self-preservation. I was just looking for that like a junkie, honestly, just looking for that next fix of serotonin.

in whatever dangerous situation I could put myself in. And I would go from one to the next, get in this crazy situation and arrest the individual. And then as soon as we would get them processed, go back out the same shift and look for it again. I was disappointed when my shift would end, because I just needed that at all times. And I did that for several months.

Annabelle (24:57)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (25:02)
That's when it started to become routine and it just didn't make me happy anymore. And then I was just kind of left with myself and to deal with my own issues. And then I started to get really depressed and really anxious all the time and having nightmares and just not sleeping good at all. And so I started drinking whiskey.

to help me sleep and to help me not feel sad and to help me not to feel anxious. And I was really, really high functioning though. I would drink every night, but I would never be late for work. I always looked sharp at work. I lifted weights and I ran. So I looked like I was in good health. And then I would perform well at work. My performance wasn't changing at work, so.

Annabelle (25:38)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (26:00)
And just like masking my emotions, I was always really good at separating those two things and just being high functioning in PTSD and depression and anxiety, as well as, you know, essentially being alcoholic. And I did that for a long time.

And I guess because of that, a lot of that period of time blurs together, but...

Annabelle (26:26)
What changed for you at that point? you mentioned you were, which wasn't healthy, but you were looking for that high and that adrenaline and you felt like you were getting it. What, what switch, what was that switch to where this is not, this is not good anymore? What drove you to, to the drinking and where this wasn't something you enjoyed anymore? Do you think it

Brent Dukes (26:49)
I it's, I've thought about it lot over the years. I honestly think it's in the same way, and I can't relate to like, abuse and narcotics. That was never a road I went down, thankfully. And then a lot of that's just, I don't have any history of that in my family, so I know how blessed I am just to not, I said know a lot of that's hereditary, and I know how fortunate I am just to not have dealt with that, because especially with

the mental struggles I certainly could have been. I kept it at alcohol, but not that it's much better, but the consequences can be different. But anyway, I think in the same way that if you're taking pills or whatever else it is, that dose is not going to bring you the same high forever. So it's like,

My body and my brain had gotten used to that specific experience and there was only so many times I could go Get in a fight with a crack dealer alone in an alley Before I just would do it and feel nothing. I didn't feel scared. I didn't feel excited I mean seriously like in a fight like I'm fighting over my just trying to take my gun. I'm fighting over my gun and I'm not feeling anything

Annabelle (28:02)
Yeah.

Wow.

Brent Dukes (28:17)
It just wasn't, it felt so routine at that point. Cause I almost like I had I had desensitized myself to that. And I realized later, well, I wasn't afraid to die. So I didn't have that fear. And during that time, I didn't tell anybody how I was feeling. So Beth didn't know, nobody knew. Cause I felt so ashamed about

Annabelle (28:42)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (28:45)
And anytime anything will be mentioned about mental health generally and going to a therapist or maybe taking an antidepressant or whatever, I would laugh at that, just scoff at it. That will, and I will say that that will never be me. I will never go talk to a therapist. I will never take any medicine for that. Yeah, right. Because in my mind, I still have the mindset

Annabelle (28:57)
Where are you?

Brent Dukes (29:15)
with the military that it's career suicide. Yeah, it's done. If I'm gonna do that, you know, I'd rather, I would rather end it than do that because my life's over anyway. My job's over. My ability to take care of my family's over. So I just gotta bury this down and eat it. Which I found out later that that's part of reason the leading cause of death in law enforcement is suicide.

Annabelle (29:17)
rare ender.

Wow.

Brent Dukes (29:44)
more than every other calls combined, more than getting shot, more than getting run over by a car, getting in a car wreck, or having a heart attack on duty. If you combine all of those together, still more officers kill themselves. Because in a lot of agencies, it is a career ender. And they'll tell you that it isn't. They'll say, hey, come talk to us if you're struggling. And then you're on death's duty. You you were doing this fun, fulfilling, you know,

Annabelle (29:45)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (30:12)
career where you're a detective or you're on, you're working whatever else and now we need you in the office. And now you get skipped over for promotion. Yeah, you get punished and I can't directly punish you, but they can skip you over for promotion and give you a BS reason why they skipped over, you know, your promotion. So, and then you see that happen to other people and you go, nope, that'll never be me. I won't say a word. I already wasn't planning on it.

Annabelle (30:19)
Yeah, you felt punished, right? It was a punishment. Right.

Brent Dukes (30:41)
But now that just cemented the fact that I will never say anything.

Annabelle (30:47)
That's a tremendous amount of just pain and to hold in that I can't imagine. What do you think was your turning point, right? Was there a moment, was there an event that just sort of made you realize, and it could be probably multiple, but where was that turning point to say, I can't do this anymore, I need help?

Brent Dukes (31:11)
Well, I noticed around 2014 at the time I was a field training officer and I was training new recruits out of the academy and they put me that position just because I had done well in my career and my performance. I had never been in trouble. I've had 12 years of policing. I never was written up, never received any kind of reprimand. I was professional with people.

On the outside, I was doing good. So they put me in that position to train new recruits. And I remember one that I had known outside of policing. And I was talking to him when he was riding with me and I was complaining about the police chief. And he and I had gotten into it. We had disagreed about something and I had a moment of being unprofessional and I said some really rude stuff about him in front of somebody.

And that officer went back and told him everything that I said. So he had told the person that makes the scheduling that I couldn't have one minute of overtime, that they were going to block me from going to any kind of training, just all this stuff. And that really kind of sent me into a spiral. I had started complaining a lot, which wasn't

Annabelle (32:16)
Wow.

Wow.

your personality, right? Yeah.

Brent Dukes (32:40)
Wasn't like me. Yeah, it wasn't like me. just all the time anybody who would listen I'd complain and I remember this guy that was riding with me I was complaining to him and he's like dude if you're so miserable you just need to leave and go do something else and it kind of hit me the wrong way to start with but then I thought like okay he's right you know if I'm miserable then I need to go do something else I'm obviously so burnt out I hate coming to work every day now

Annabelle (33:02)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (33:09)
I'm not doing what I want to at work. I'm miserable with myself. And at that time, I really had not dealt with the miserable with myself part. I was really, even though, yeah, there were things going on at work, I had caused that by my outburst, my uncharacteristic outburst about my boss. And then also I was projecting really bad. So every way I felt,

Annabelle (33:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (33:39)
I would find something in my life to blame it on rather than say, no, I'm dealing with something. And maybe my circumstances aren't ideal. They're not the source of why, know, actual cause of how I'm feeling. And now, know, that was before, you know, a couple hundred therapy sessions. So I told Beth,

Annabelle (33:54)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

So you sought therapy, was that the moment that you sought therapy or what? Did it take you a while to get there? It sounded like.

Brent Dukes (34:12)
no, I had many more years of misery and denial before I would do that. I told Beth at the beginning of 2015 that I just didn't want to do it anymore. I'm going to go back to school and I had the GI Bill and all that, I'll just, I'll go finish my degree and then I'll go to another police department or something.

Annabelle (34:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (34:41)
So she was fine with that. We moved to Mobile, got back in school and you know, that was going fine. And just like when I first started policing, the first six months to a year of that, it was like I had a new motivation. Okay, I'm doing this and my grades are awesome and I'm enjoying it. I enjoy school and all that. And then,

Annabelle (35:04)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (35:11)
Once that temporary excitement, that temporary serotonin boost faded, I started getting incredibly depressed again and I started drinking again. And then my grades started to slip a little bit, not failing, but enough to where I, because I just was so unmotivated. Again, which is not like me to let something like that happen.

Annabelle (35:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (35:43)
but I was still in denial. But that rocked on for a few more months. And that's when the deputy chief called me and said, hey, we want you to come back. We'll give you a raise. We've got new leadership. And because I had never dealt with, okay, I was miserable at work, partly and largely because of me. And I was projecting that onto the old leadership. I'd never dealt with that.

Annabelle (35:55)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (36:12)
That was not my opinion at the time. was, if it weren't for that chief, it weren't for the leadership, things would have been awesome. Just like they were day one. Just like when I was, you know, riding around with my buddy and doing wild stuff and having fun. It would have been just like that if it wasn't for him. that's right. It's just somebody else. I was still projecting. So I said, absolutely, I'll come back. I'm so ready to come back. I'm miserable here, which I was really miserable with myself.

Annabelle (36:25)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's somebody else, right? Instead of looking internal.

Brent Dukes (36:42)
And in December, I actually started back with Jackson December 2016. So I'd only been gone like a year and a half, or less than that.

Annabelle (36:55)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (36:58)
and started back, things were going great. I was the old me. I was impressing the new chief, you know, doing all the old stuff I used to do. And he was impressed with my professionalism and my work ethic and my ability to make really, you know, high level arrests and do it safely and all this.

Annabelle (37:09)
Yeah.

And you were a detective at this point, right? You had been permuted or not yet.

Brent Dukes (37:21)
No, I was back for a year before I just really impressed my new chief and then he asked me if I was interested in investigations. I told him I was and so I came over and became a detective. I general investigations for a while, working everything from someone breaking into a vehicle, you know, like a

Annabelle (37:25)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (37:50)
on lawful entry of a motor vehicle to murder. We worked all that. And then the state formed a statewide drug task force where other agencies around the state would join. And he put me in for that and I got on that and went all over the state doing cool new things. And so it's like I was constantly going from one thing to the next. So I always had a new change of scenery.

Annabelle (37:54)
Hmm.

Okay.

Brent Dukes (38:20)
So instead of getting really burnt out and bored, things were really changing. I would do something radically different than I was doing before and I had that new excitement. And so by the time I would get burnt out, yeah. And by the time I would get burnt out, I would do something new. And my job was varied enough that I could do something new. the entire time, from all the way back to 2011,

Annabelle (38:20)
Right.

That adrenaline again, right? Yeah.

Brent Dukes (38:50)
I was completely checked out emotionally, as far as at home with my wife. I was just emotionally just not present. Because I had never dealt with my issues, so that wasn't enough for me, much less anybody else. I wasn't mean. I wasn't nice. wasn't any. I was just kind of nothing.

Annabelle (38:58)
you

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (39:20)
Just absent, really absent. And I was that way until all the way until about 2017 and then 2018. That's when the mask that I had been putting on for years where I could be that jovial person because at this point my job had kind of.

I was in the same position and that exciting stuff was not as fun. Yeah, and I was doing really dangerous stuff. I was doing search warrants. I would always volunteer to be the first person to go through the door on an entry. The more dangerous it was, the more I wanted to do it. would always volunteer for that.

Annabelle (39:50)
Mm-hmm.

Monotonous again. Yeah.

Brent Dukes (40:19)
because I wanted something to happen to me. I wasn't going to do it myself, but I wanted just to get shot going through the door. And that way nobody can call me selfish. So I started doing that. I would go into really dangerous areas of town by myself, deal with large groups of people alone, 10, 20 people.

Annabelle (40:23)
do it yourself, but you want to. Wow.

Brent Dukes (40:44)
with guns and just it was, and my buddies would say stuff to me, they would get really mad at me for doing it. Because it was so dangerous, tell me I'm gonna get myself killed, I would blow them off and like, no, I'm fine, I'm not gonna get killed. But in my mind, I was like, yeah, that's the point. Hopefully sooner rather than later. And so I would just constantly do really, really reckless things. And I did that for years and it's just.

Annabelle (40:51)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Brent Dukes (41:14)
I believe God protected me from myself because something should have happened in that time. Many times as I rolled the dice, it would really make me mad that nothing had happened. like, how much stuff do I have to do before something happens? And during that time, I got shot at and it was so strange. It didn't scare me at all. It really made me, I was just kind of pissed. I was mad when it happened, but.

Annabelle (41:43)
I like it.

Brent Dukes (41:44)
just at the person that had shot at me, but no fear, no adrenaline, just really strange. if I got shot at right now, I promise you I would, it would scare, it would scare me and I would feel lots of adrenaline. I promise you. cause I don't want to die.

Annabelle (41:53)
Most people.

Yeah, well, what happened? Like you go from, I mean, you were suicidal. something happened to where, it another coworker? Was it your family? When did you finally just say and just were honest with yourself about, I just want to die?

Brent Dukes (42:09)
done.

Well, at beginning of 2019, I remember it had gotten so bad, people had started to notice that I was withdrawn and quiet. Beth had noticed it for a lot, a lot sooner. She noticed it probably in like 2018. I mean, she had said something over the years about my drinking and I'd blown her off, but it just became really bad in 2018 that I would drink till I would black out. I'd wait till everybody got to bed and then I would drink, you know,

Annabelle (42:33)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (42:55)
two days worth of drinking in an hour. And I would throw up and it was just, it was bad. And then I would pass out and I would cry and it just, it was bad. But it got even worse toward the beginning of 2019 and I was really withdrawn from all my friends. Didn't hang out with my buddies anymore, didn't do anything at work. Just did as little as possible.

and everyone had started to notice that something was, was off. And I remember one night I was drinking and I guess I had gotten, I had had enough to drink or I was feeling honest and I was laying down on the couch next to Beth and I'd laid my head in her lap and was talking to her.

And I played a song that I told her I really liked and it was about like suicide and stuff like that, like mental health. And she's like, do you ever feel that way? was like, yeah, I want to think about killing myself all the time. And then I finally told her how depressed I was. And that was the first time I'd ever told anybody how, how I felt, like how, what I was dealing with. had suffered from 2007 to for 12 years, I just suffered in silence and

Annabelle (44:18)
It's a long time.

Brent Dukes (44:21)
It's like an infection. Like it just festers over time. And what I realized is like you can either, you can either deal with it as, as it happens, as you start seeing those signs and symptoms and noticing that you're withdrawn and uninterested in things you used to be interested in, or you can wait till you have a mental breakdown, which is what I was.

Annabelle (44:28)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (44:51)
what I was having. And it was like at that point that

Annabelle (44:52)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (45:01)
that I actually started to get help. And so she encouraged me and she helped me and I started, I took a little time off work, had a lot of vacation built up and sick time. And I went to my chief and he was, you this is the new chief and he was a great guy. He's a veteran. And told him what I was dealing with, some time off work.

Annabelle (45:03)
Mm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (45:24)
He understood and he let me take a month off work and just go to therapy and take medicine and start getting better.

Annabelle (45:28)
Yeah.

deal with what was going on.

And I know it takes time to heal. like you said, you were 12 years feeling this way and it took, you know, one night with your wife to finally just tell the truth and take off that mask. And I know it's a journey for everybody, right? You continue your, I don't think anybody's ever a hundred percent healed, but what were some things that you started to implement besides therapy and of course medication?

Brent Dukes (46:01)
No.

Annabelle (46:08)
to help you move forward? it, I know that you were, was it changing jobs? Did you, in addition to that, what were some things you implemented?

Brent Dukes (46:08)
what

Well, yeah, like you said, it's a journey.

had times where I would feel a little better. And I think part of the issue is that I waited so long to get help. Maybe if I'd have got help sooner, I would be doing even better now than I am. I felt like I just, I let it go on too long and then some things just become more part of who you are than they have to be. And so,

Annabelle (46:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (46:53)
I would feel better for a month and then go back into a really dark depression and drink again. wish I could tell you that in 2019, I got help and then it was all downhill from there and that just wasn't the case. I've been at the end of 2019 was like the lowest point of my life and got back into a really dark depression and that affected.

Annabelle (47:09)
Yeah.

Brent Dukes (47:21)
my family's life in a big way and just dealing with that.

So it's, I mean, honestly, it's been, like right now, I'm doing good. But there's been times even recently where it's been really, really hard. And so it's not something where I can take a pill and go talk to somebody with a degree and I'll feel better.

Annabelle (47:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brent Dukes (47:53)
It's something that I have to stay on top of. I have to avoid drinking. Because that puts me in a bad state of mind. I have to really be aware like, okay, I'm kind of getting in a bad place right now. And I've been feeling bad for a while. So maybe I need to get back with my doctor and talk to him about maybe a different medicine or something. And I need to let people in my life that love me know that I'm really struggling right now.

Annabelle (47:57)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (48:22)
hard time and so they can keep an on me. So if they start seeing those destructive behaviors like, well, I drink every day this week, maybe they can hold me accountable and say, hey, you know, that doesn't help you. That just makes it worse. Things like that. it is, it is something you have to stay on top of. And I know that with when people hear that that are struggling with that and they say, well, I have to deal with it forever.

No, you don't necessarily have to deal with it forever. The advice I would give is that deal with it early so that you don't have to try to get better for as long. And just stay on top of it and understand you won't feel this way forever. It's not your destiny just to feel this way forever, but you have to be proactive in it. You can't sit in it and feel sorry for yourself.

Annabelle (48:59)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (49:19)
you have to take proactive steps of like, okay, have I done everything that I can to feel better? I go to therapy and I've talked to maybe a psychiatrist about medicine. And I don't like the idea of having to take medicine for that. But okay, what it's gonna do is help me right now while I'm going to therapy and while I'm working on these things, it'll make things a little more bearable.

Annabelle (49:25)
Bye bye.

Right. And it sounds like you've taken off that mask that you had on for so long too.

Brent Dukes (49:52)
Yeah, I don't have the energy for that mask anymore and I have a different job now. A much like a job that's not stressful. I monitor jail communications in the county. It's for the sheriff's department that's in the county that I used to work in, which is Clark County. So I do that now, it's very low stress.

Annabelle (49:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (50:19)
It's a satisfying job, but it's just, it's a very different job than I used to do. I'm able to do it from home and spend more, it's a remote job, entirely remote, able to spend time with my family. And even though my job wasn't the sole source of my stress, I realized toward the end there that it was incredibly unhealthy, incredibly unhealthy job for me to be in, seeing death.

Annabelle (50:27)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (50:48)
and working murders and working suicides when I was feeling suicidal. I I can't think of anything more counterproductive than that, because those would send me in a spiral, and especially in a smaller area. I worked suicides with people that I knew well while I was feeling that way. And that was just, was terrible, just seeing horrible gruesome stuff that is just terrible for anyone's mental health.

Annabelle (50:48)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (51:18)
much less someone who's already dealing with this. And so that was maybe part of the reason I didn't make more progress sooner. It was just one step forward, one step back. I just kind of stayed that same place because I had so many external traumas separate from the initial trauma. Now that I don't have that, I feel like I've taken off a heavy coat.

Annabelle (51:34)
Mm-hmm.

Brent Dukes (51:48)
and that I can make more progress toward feeling better. I feel more hopeful about the future instead of just stagnant and that I'm just gonna stay in that one specific place in my mind forever. know, basically just trying, my only goal being, okay, don't kill yourself today. That's not a real lofty goal, you know. There's, I can...

Annabelle (51:54)
Yeah.

my gosh. Yeah.

Brent Dukes (52:15)
I can do better than that. can feel better than that, you know, and I do now.

Annabelle (52:20)
Yeah, it sounds like you've done everything you can do by surrounding yourself with family, you know, making sure you're held accountable for this stuff, seeking mental health, therapist, medicine, whatever you have to do. And it sounds like you're definitely moving forward in the right direction. Even, like you said, changing the job, less stress. But you recognize that and that's...

Brent Dukes (52:44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Annabelle (52:49)
That's huge and I know a lot of people have difficulty doing that or making tough decisions, right? You said that you loved your job, but realizing that that's not healthy for you and that doesn't serve you anymore. But it sounds like it's a happy ending. Like you said, it's a journey. Everything's not perfect, but it's a happy ending.

Brent Dukes (53:02)
Yeah.

It is. It is. It's a journey.

Yeah, as long as there's progress. Like, I don't have to see the finish line right now, but I know that today I'm further along than I was a year ago, or a month ago, or even a week ago.

Annabelle (53:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Brent, for sharing your story and just getting so personal. you know, you, you're amazing as far as your journey and the things that you've done, you know, military police, you know, we, we have much respect for you. And I know it's not always easy to, to share things like that, but I really appreciate you doing that for me.

Brent Dukes (53:34)
Yeah, so happy to do it.

Well, no, I appreciate it. And I went from being a closed book to an overshare now. I'll tell you too much now. Now that the mask is falling off, I just, I don't do that at all anymore. And I'll just, I'll tell you anything at this point. I don't, I don't care.

Annabelle (54:01)
Yeah. Well.

Well, your story, you know, really can resonate with a lot of people, you know, and so I think sometimes we just need to hear that, you know, there's everybody else is suffering too. And there's, you know, ways that you can cope and get ideas on how to address it and that we're all human. So I just, you know, I really appreciate you, your time today and sharing that with me.

Brent Dukes (54:31)
Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, thank you for listening to me.

Annabelle (54:41)
Yeah.